Being a Pharisee did not disqualify you from believing in Yeshua. I could just say Jesus is our model. But never discuss the Scriptures that show why Paul is NOT our model. However, there are other times when Paul puts his Christian beliefs and what Jesus has to say before the Pharisaical rules and is willing to break a rule or be mocked for something and instead, do something Jesus way. Based on whats happening in Israel, it looks like Jesus could be returning soon. Paul, however, I think was so strongly devoted to the strict teachings of the Torah, that he had to fundamentally had to disagree with his teacher. The reason why Paul is talking about athletics is due to Imperial Court. The leaders of the various house churches, Apollos by name, perhaps Chloes household is another church. Yeshua himself even quotes these writings directly. He was absolutely brilliant. The Pharisee Gamaliel is mentioned twice in the New Testament (Acts 5:34; 22:3). Probably his training with Gamaliel would have been concluded by the time he was twenty and would have given Paul a very good understanding of Old Testament Scripture. I think Jesus was God incarnate, but the preaching in Acts 2-3 that brings the increasingly violent reaction is that the Jews killed their true messiah and God raised him from the dead, *and* that he is coming back to judge the nation (starting with Caiaphas?). I agree with you. It isnt a question of mens opinions about what Paul really meant or what Paul must have known or what Paul was actually referring to here or what Paul was clearly implying or what we must conclude that Paul was assuming, etc. This is not the sort of education most people would even want, so it is not really a college degree. There is no god but God Shahada part 1 in Islam. Jesus Leadership Training, The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World. The Bible says clearly that Paul in his words said he was a Paharisee and he that he sat under the teachings of Gamaliel. We therefore need to be careful what we say to the young and fragile new born souls. (I know, captain obvious). In regards to Gamaliel, based off of Acts 5:35-40, he seemed to be a wise teacher. Is AARP PO Box 93143 Long Beach CA 90809-9720 a valid address? Galatians: Freedom through Gods Grace (Wipf & Stock, 2019). Once we allow things that we can not say with certainty, we give a foothold to the enemy to sow his seed too. Similarly,When did Paul study under Gamaliel? We do not know if either Gamaliel or Paul heard Jesus preach or were part of any of the meetings which led to his death. When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon.. [Luke 6:12-14], Again three chapters later, When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. [Luke 9:1-2], .3) Gospel of Matthew which is organized by theme, not necessarily in chronological order. Gamaliel may or may not have taken over the position when Simon died. So it is possible they left out the respected Pharisee Gamaliel so that he would not oppose crucifixion. Those educational credentials allowed Paul to preach in the synagogues wherever he traveled (see Acts 17:2 ). St. Paul is simply an elect vessel, as an Apostle! Written in stone. What could be more permanent than that? The Fast is known as Yom Kippur. The man throws his huge sombrero hat on the floor, and the couple dances around it, but never steps on the hat. Polhill goes on to talk about Paul studying Greek and by him studying under Gameliel and Hellenism, he would be around the gymnasium. When Saul encountered the Lords voice in Acts chapter 9, it makes me question if Saul had been hearing the Lords voice sooner, but he was not listening? Instead, it puts their focus on their one special man above all others his personality, words and teachings, character, life example, feelings, experience, intentions, mind, will, emotions, etc. Jesus spoke the 3 chapters of the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5-7, including 7:12. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. Why are you waiting, be of those who bow to Gods Will if you know that the Bible has lies in it and is corrupt, you must believe that a true religion exists in the world and isnt a secluded secret for the few who know! Gamaliel the Elder, or Rabban Gamaliel I, was a leading authority in the Sanhedrin in the early first century CE. I will say, The Jewish account maintains that he remained a Pharisee until his death makes perfect sense since we know that there were other Pharisees who were Christians in Acts 15, and Paul still claims to be a Pharisee when he testifies before the Sanhedrin in Acts 23:6. The blog started as a supplement to teaching through Acts at my church, then later college classes. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. Thanks for the pointer. Later, when Im at the height of my career, and Im financially secure and I dont have to worry about finding a job or keeping my job, and I have some real influence- maybe 40 years from now, when Im, like, in my sixties, say in around 2013- thats when Ill really be able to stand up for Jesus. Only $35.99/year. 15: 8-11 etc. .1) Fuhrer. hmmm. St. Gamaliel, also Gamaliel the Elder or or Rabbi Gamaliel I (Hebrew: ; Greek: ) was a Pharisee who was a leading authority in the Sanhedrin, a doctor of the Law (Acts 5:34-40), and the teacher of St Paul (Acts 22:3). This was where the institution derived its name, gymnos being the Greek word for naked. For Jews, nakedness was religiously offensive (11). By Paul being Jewish and involved in the gymnasium, he was going against the norm. Polhill does say So perhaps around the age of fourteen to sixteen Pawl went to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel (Polhill 30). So even if he did go off at the age of 15 then that is still 15 years of being influenced by his father. How many times did Jesus speak to Paul? Although Gamaliel was a wise teacher, he was still a Pharisee, so his teaching was not in line with God. Im glad no one disagrees with me. These towns created laws that anyone in the town must worship these gods in order to buy, sell, trade or commute in the city. He tells his readers that he is "a Hebrew of Hebrews.". Then, in Acts 22:3, Paul says that he was "brought up in this . The people who Paul persecuted were diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that he was raised from the dead. This status gave him special privileges, and in some cases saved him from abuse (Acts 22:25-29). For example, I talk a bit about this issue in these posts: https://readingacts.com/2013/08/29/the-new-perspective-on-paul-did-paul-convert-to-christianity/, https://readingacts.com/2013/09/08/paul-and-judaism/, https://readingacts.com/2017/09/04/was-paul-a-pharisee/. And I need to save a throne for my mom, or shell be mad. 2. This mantra is a misinterpretation out of context of 2 Timothy 3:16. One of them responded to me QUOTE: In short you believe Paul is the Anti Christ.. Not a new theory Mostly just misunderstanding Pauls writings..He never preached to abolish The Torah thats a misunderstanding https://unashamedofjesus.org/2016/05/31/greatest-commandment/#comment-5642, The other one responded to me QUOTE: When you referred to Jesus words about the greatest commandment, you neglected to mention the context. Jesus never said right is wrong, He never said wrong is right. If he came to cancel the law why is he adhering and implementing Torah and following the laws passed by the Sanhedrin? .2) Paul lying to the Ephesian elders saying he was compelled by the Spirit going to Jerusalem, when in truth he was clearly disobeying God. Somebody did the calculations of Paul's education, and said he basically had the equivalent of two Ph.D.'s by the time he was 21 years of age. These would be lofty words for a law abiding Pharisee to be speaking and Paul obviously saw Christ as the laws fulfillment. This is not true, you have no idea what you are talking about. Neither do I condemn you said Jesus, to a woman entrapped by dogs. Without any clear time reference, continuing on the theme of the Apostles, Matthew does record These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions [Matthew 10:5] Matthew never said that the Apostles were sent out immediately after being appointed. There are many of us Red Letter Christians out here in evangelical land. 1. If you look at both the Greek and the Hebrew they were clearly called Netzarim (Nazarites) . Paul is not a liar; he just has a dual citizenship. Then again youre the one creating a construct that Paul was Shammai. He calls himself "of the people of Israel.". Even though Gamaliel was the one who stated in Acts 5:34-39 that if this Jesus movement were from God there would be no way to stop it, they should just let it run its course, Paul was still influenced heavily by the persecution mindset that the rest of the Sanhedrin had. Since I am teaching through Paul and his Letters again this fall, I thought I would revisit that older post and provide some additional thoughts on Gamaliel as background for reading Paul. Anyway, I should save a throne for him too.. Phillip J. Moseley is not wrong: the earliest Christ followers were Jewish and no one tried to convert to Christianity, but that is because there was no Christianity to convert to at that point. Its too bad that modern Pauls control most pulpits, and are constantly bullying the followers of Jesus into silence, ignoring the words of Jesus, and instead leading people to follow PAAL. Several people objected that it does not really matter who Pauls human teachers were, after his conversion experience he was taught by the Holy Spirit. The issue wasnt the Torah, the issue it was the corrupted law that man attached to the Torah. Upgrade to remove ads. The homeowners friend, the painting contractor, apologized, and explained: I hired a new foreman named Paul, but that was a huge mistake. Good to see the parrot-heads well represented here. I am trying to understand this whole post, but think the discussion is mainly about Paul and why he acted the way he did in persecuting christians after studying under Gamaliel who was more concerned with non violent acts. As has been said multiple times above, it is fairly common for a pupil to break off from his teachers opinion. The soul of Saint Gamaliel appeared to the presbyter Lucian in AD 415 and told him where to find the relics of Stephen and those of his own body. The quicker we do it, the more profitable it is for us. If the mere thought of questioning Pauline Doctrine or Pauls truthfulness ruffles your feathers, its a sign that Pauls rotten spiritual fruit has taken root in your life. Only after the house is finished and the paint is dry can we go and paint the garage.. Then those who finished the garage can go help the others finish the house., One worker objected: But Boss Paul, those were not the owners instructions! He will give himself a special title, write at least one special book, and claim special authority, with no need for a second witness to back him up. You have a rather closed worldview and are blind to what I have said. The one in Deuteronomy 6:4-5, or the one in Leviticus 19:18 ? I wont say Im high on Jesus, and so using a mind-altering drug for recreational purposes is wrong, because Jesus is better. I dont want to be rejected by my peers. The testimony of Jesus is the voice of Jesus, (The Red Letters,) recorded by the 11 faithful witnesses, the True Apostles that Jesus personally appointed and trained for over 3 years. To know the truth is a blessing from Allah, if I had to guess you just have not been taught what Islam teaches, and we honor all Prophets (pbut) revere the 12 Apostles and have never acknowledged that Paul was one of Jesus (p) Apostles, but have always known he was responsible for the corruption of the Truth about God and the Messiah (p). He uses this in Philippians 3:12-14 to describe the Christian walk. I got lots of note on it I thank God and I praise God. Things will be different then. I dont think that he is a Christian pharisee however, I believe that he just holds close to the teachings that he received for over half of his life before his conversion. We'll address more of this in a moment. Paul claims in Philippians 3 to be a Hebrew of the Hebrews, some people take that as a saying we spoke Hebrew at home, not Greek or Aramaic. Have heard some scholars saying that If Paul was living in the 21 century he would have had 5 phd, how true is that. Beware of the NAR whale its really a killer whale with a man-made horn strapped on top. Yes the Holy Spirit guided him in his writings, but part of being human is how we are shaped from our teachers and mentors. What was his last name? Why elevate the words of Marypaulhammad to the highest place, and use them as the lens to view and judge everything else? it was mandatory for all males at some point to go to yeshiva this applies to Yeshua and his disciples as well. I think they are both wrong, because of Ephesians 2:15 and Matthew 5:17-20, among other Scripture passages Can you help to bring harmony in the Bride of Christ? I didnt know everything 7 years ago either but I have grown and learned new things about God and His Word in the past 7 years, as is normal for a growing believer. I think in certain ways, Paul can be described as a Christian Pharisee who believes in Jesus because there are times when Paul goes very much by the books and follows certain rules. IMHO, most of the sports analogies are from the Olympic styled games which were found throughout the empires. Same question; Specifically, what were Pauls specific sins as a Christian based on specific verses of the Bible? Dang, I wrote that and didnt respond to your last point. Exactly what Issa p al Masih did about 500 years earlier! As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. Tobit is a good reference In the Babylonian Talmud, Zevahim 97b and 100b there are statements given in the name of Rabbi Akiva that in the case of an unclaimed body, if no one is attending to it, the responsibility for the buriasl of this corpse falls on this person, who must do it despite any obstacles, regardless if one is a High Priest or Nazirite, neither of whom are allowed to become tamei, ritually impure. And even if Matthias was physically absent at that particular occasion, Jesus is still establishing the basic qualification for having one of the twelve thrones as being you who have followed me, not someone who will follow Jesus in the future, like Paul, James, Luke or anyone else in the world. b) Greg Laurie, the Boss of a wide-ranging personal cult empire that generally goes by the name of Harvest. Greg lives in Newport Beach, commutes by helicopter, and exploits the very large church he founded in Riverside from a distance, while he does his own thing in Orange County and travels around wherever he feels like, building a personal business empire with himself as the center, not Jesus. etc. I would think that he would include that in his self-description as the chief of sinners. One could envisage that the power of God was already hard wired in the heart some people through faith in his words and by grace in his blood just as Gamaliel proclaimed, A homeowner called his friend, who was a painting contractor. No one except Judas ever lost his apostleship. As to pauls seemingly at odds relationship with his teacher Gamaliel, it is no odd thing for a student to differ from a teacher, especially if the student is quite a zealous one. The irony is what youre doing is exactly what Paul said NOT to do. Removing that aspect will cause misunderstanding of what they were teaching. Since the entire ministry framework both Yeshua and Paul are 100% Jewish, meaning adherence oral and written law, you are to view it from that lense. His most recent book is The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World (Rockridge, 2022). 1. The Apostle Peter made reference to Prophecy of Scripture, not All Scripture, and no its not the same thing at all. Gamaliel is reported to have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the apostles (Acts 5:34-39). The people who Paul persecuted were Diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that God raised Jesus from the dead. Who am I to challenge hundreds years of false man-made tradition, like Jesus, Martin Luther, Columbus, Copernicus and Galileo? Many self-professed Bible-believing Evangelicals wont listen to the words of Jesus, because they are brainwashed through reciting their mantra all scripture is God-breathed.. There were a plethora of Pharisee within the Sanhedrin that agreed with Yeshua and Yeshua himself is a Pharisee(plethora of verses that state this as well). The notion was given classic expression only a little more than a century ago by the biblical scholar John William Burgon. As a side note, Wright has an excellent article on that on http://www.ntwrightpage.com here: http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Paul_Arabia_Elijah.pdf. 2 : any of numerous moths whose gregarious larvae spin communal nests usually in trees. Gamaliel established a number of lenient ordinances, in particular . Jesus is in agreement with the Law and the Prophets and came to fulfill them. [Matthew 5:17-20]. Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). Paul was probably making reference to some of the Hebrew Scriptures, quite likely including the Law and the Prophets. Helpful. Rather than the many trails of supposition. But we dont need to put words in the mouth of Jesus, we can let Jesus speak for himself, and we can listen to Him and obey Him. He is never popular, but always interesting! Are the lines differentiating Gamaliel/Hillel from Shammaite Pharisees sufficiently filled out by robust bodies of exhaustive casuistry? If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. My problem is with your assumption that just because Paul differs from Gamaliel makes him a radical Shammaite Pharisee. Good point. I know! It bothered Peter so much that G-d sent him a vision regarding gentiles coming into the faith. 1:3 ; 1:11-12, etc.). Thats the short version of my definition of what is an Apostle.. I think there is some sort of progression, however, in Pauls theology. Wow, that Love Song concert was groovy, man. I will punt the description of the Shammites back to Wright, I have read extensively on the topic, but the characterization he gives in *What Saint Paul Really Thought* is a bit more than I think the evidence can bear. It was the righteousness of the law summarized. 5:7) Paul takes a Nazarite vow, validate his claim that he doesnt teach against Torah and upholds it. Perhaps this may not be too much of a stress, no? get up set if you want ,,but Paul was that , dont believe it ? Nowhere. But Ive branched out into quite a few other books of the New Testament, and some Old Testament as well as frequent book reviews. Paul probably understood Judaism better than all of these false teachers put together. The cornerstone of Judaism then and now is that although it has guidelines it also leaves rooms for free thought. How long will you waver between two opinions? And what kind of a stone is the most solid, permanent, and unchangeable? In Matthew 22 and Mark 12, Jesus identified two commandments, saying one of them is the first and greatest most important one. [erase erase erase]. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts, although some (like Chilton) are not completely convinced Acts portrays Gamaliel accurately. Paul says that he was taught by Gamaliel. Paul, Silas, and Timothy desired to enter Asia to spread the gospel there, but the Holy Spirit prevented them. Granted Shammaite pharisees love their Torah to that extent as well, but it is not a distinctly Shammaite practice. He has Masters degrees in Biblical Exposition and Old Testament from Talbot School of Theology (BIOLA) and a PhD in New Testament from Andrews University. Paul undermined Apollos and heretically claimed I became your father. Here are 5 to get the discussion started: .1) Pauls boastful conflicting false testimonies, exaggerating and making things up about his conversion experience in Acts 22 & 26, compared to what actually happened (recorded by Luke in Acts 9). I am surprised that no one has brought the tradition that Gamaliel was sympathetic to Christianity, if not himself baptized. Plenty of time for him to get familiar with popular Greek culture in order to draw appropriate analogies. If we didnt also have the clear records in Mark and Luke, it would be a fairly logical assumption that Jesus sent them out right away, but it would still be just an assumption. Return to your own blog and post this stuff. But Pauls teachings drive one up the wall. This isnt the fullest description of him, but its full enough. So approximately 1-2 years after the crucifixion and Resurrection. teresa marina tabucchi; antonia reininghaus daughter; mountain view ar tornado 1996; safari photography settings; catfish bite force; professional executor services Either way, by Acts logic every Christian should reject false doctrines but if a new teacher appears and preaches about God the One God, and is called a Prophet, if his mission is as wildly successful, sans the forced conversions Christianity depended on, IS FORBIDDEN at that, obviously Christians are the new Pharisees for rejecting and slandering Prophet Mohammed (saw) and adhering to oral traditions of their forefathers. As a teen, his family sent him to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel, the most prestigious Jewish teacher of that time, similar to a Harvard education today. Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; Numbers 7:59 chapter context similar meaning "And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur." Here is how Jesus answered that question: #1 One of the teachers of the law asked him [Jesus], Of all the commandments, which is the most important?, The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: Hear, of Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. When we look at Pauls teachings and testimony about himself, (in his letters that make up 1/3 of the New Testament,) we should NOT immediately ask ourselves; what did Paul say, what did Paul mean, and how does this apply to my life? The fundamental question is NOT what was in the mind of Paul?, Before any of that, the FIRST question to ask is; does Paul agree with Jesus, who came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets?, Paul contradicted himself, and his teachings and testimony about himself dont harmonize with the teachings of Jesus (or with Lukes record of his life.) Since the garage is smaller, we can finish that quicker. Believe. Gamaliel is not a Christian, but he certainly demonstrates that attitude in this story! This has literally been the Orthodox position for almost 2000 years. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. Paul wrote: The entire law is summed up in a SINGLE command: Love your neighbor as yourself. [Galatians 5:14, Leviticus 19:18], And again, Paul wrote: He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. IMHO, Paul was not an eyewitness to the crucifixion. But there is a notable difference in Paul from pre- to post-conversion. Thus, Matthew was providing a second written witness, confirming the testimony of Jesus.). and as long as the food was not sacrificed to idols and was kosher you could eat with gentiles. But Jesus said, do not take the best seats (Luke 14:7-11), and to be like a child (Luke 18:15-17). In reality youd be considered a Judaizer ( an no its not what Christians think it is because that definition is clearly wrong) and thrown out of the synagogues. You are one of a growing number of followers of the Messiah (p) Issa/Yesha who actually have figured out Paul was a con artist sent to corrupt the movement started by the Nazarene Messiah (p) and if it failed in Pauls lifetime it succeeded under the Roman Emporer Constantine and it was Paul they revered as THE Apostle, even before Nicene Creed was made up. On example: I think that it is likely he on his way to being a master of Greco-Roman rhetoric prior to conversion. If you dont ask about Pauls sins, I wont tell about them. There is absolutely no Christianity in the book of Acts. Is the Word of God a revelation to man? Especially to a yeshiva student studying to be a Chazzan. That the latter paid especial attention to study is shown by the remarkable classification of pupils ascribed to him, for which a classification of the fish of Palestine formed a basis (Ab. If Christianity is the church as it is practiced in 2018 then you are correct, that is not present in the book of Acts. In Galatians 1:21, Paul wrote, "I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia .". He was also a hellene or hellenized jew of the diaspora as part of the culture of the greeks so he was also schooled in Greek logic and would have been knowledgeable in the classics of Plato and Aristotle, Stoism and Epicureanism. Go and sin no more said Jesus, Dont relive that history. I have said I will ignore you since you are not interested in dialogue. I need to refine that. A persons presuppositions about what Christianity is (or is not) is the real problem here. He was a ruthless persecutor who sought to stop what he saw as an aberration within Judaism. Paul is the model pastor for many modern Pauls like; a) Bob Coy, who still owns all the assets and controls all the money at his cult known as Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale, in spite of his recent resignation as Senior Pastor there due to adultery with multiple woman and other major sins that he still has never specifically admitted to personally. Gamaliel was a Pharisee, and a prestigious teacher of the law in the council. Perhaps Gamiliels views influenced Pauls personal comments on marriage in 1 Cor 7 (Polhill, Paul and his Letters, 30). (Eph. Both clearly exhibit traits of each respective tradition.As to Pauls Hellenistic tendencies and use of his Roman citizenship, we only see him make use of those things POST conversion. whats d equivalence of studying at d feet of Gamaliel to todays education. In fact, Paul describes himself as a ruthless persecutor who sought to stop what he saw as an aberration within Judaism. BOSS PAUL THE PHARISEE [sing it to the tune of Rapture by Blondie], Im Boss Paul, the Pharisee My hypocrisys plain for the world to see I travel the land and travel the sea to make a convert who is just like ME, All have sinned we know thats true but it never means ME it only means YOU My sins are all theoretical Im the worst of sinners- but dont ask where. Persona 5 Royal Confidant Availability Calendar, Alligator Wrestling New Orleans, Wojciechowski Funeral Home Obituaries, Articles H

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